The Brutal Reality of the Middle East | Mosab Hassan Yousef | EP 443

Coming up (00:00:00)

• The speaker warns against inciting violence, harassing Jewish people, and spreading chaos.
• Chanting "From The River To The Sea" has historically been followed by violence.

Intro (00:00:41)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of Hamas co-founder Sheik Hassan Yousef, had a brutal childhood in Jerusalem.
• He became a reliable source for Israeli intelligence in 1997, preventing suicide bombings.
• The interview covers various topics, including Middle Eastern culture, Yousef's transformation, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
• The speaker reflects on the complexity of the situation and the need for wisdom and experience when discussing it.
• Yousef believes that alliance with Israel is the best path forward for both the West and the Arab world.

Mosab Yousef: “Palestine is non-existential” (00:03:51)

• Palestine is not a country, ethnic group, religion, or faith.
• Palestine was a colonial entity created by the British that existed for about 25 years.
• Before the British Mandate, the area was called the British Mandate of Palestine.
• The British established Palestine after World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
• The Ottoman Empire ethnically cleansed the Jewish people from their land for about 400 years.
• After World War I, the Jewish people sought refuge in their homeland, leading to clashes with the British and Arabs.
• In 1948, the United Nations divided the land, giving the Jews and Arabs the opportunity to establish their own states.
• The Jews declared independence, but the Arabs declared war against them.

Why a two-state system has not been implemented in the past (00:07:56)

• From an Islamic perspective, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and surrounding areas are considered an Islamic trust that no Muslim leader can give away to non-Muslims.
• Muslims believe that the land is an Islamic land and that the Jewish presence there is illegitimate.
• The Jewish people have overwhelming evidence of their existence in the land for centuries, while Muslims do not have similar evidence.
• The Zionist movement initially supported a two-state solution, but Muslims completely rejected the idea of Jewish existence on the land.
• Mecca is a holy city where non-Muslims are not allowed to enter or drive through, and Muslims want the same restrictions in Jerusalem.

The events that changed Mosabs world view (00:10:28)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, born in 1978, is the son of Hamas co-founder Sheikh Hassan Yousef.
• Growing up in Ramallah, he witnessed the bloodshed and conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, which led him to question the motives behind the suffering and violence in the region.
• Mosab experienced trauma during the First Palestinian Intifada, which empowers him to continue his work speaking out against the suffering of children in Gaza.

The chaos of Yasser Arafat (00:17:09)

• Yasser Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian Revolution, was actually an Egyptian artist born in Egypt with an obvious Egyptian accent.
• After being expelled from Jordan, Lebanon, and Indonesia, Arafat and his group came up with the idea to engineer the intifada, which involved creating chaos and disorder within the Palestinian territories.
• They used children as pawns in their strategy, sending them to die in violent confrontations with the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and settlers.
• The intifada resulted in the disruption of education, economy, and transportation, causing harm to civilians and creating a climate of fear and intimidation.
• Arafat and his group showed no remorse or guilt in sacrificing children for their own power and money.
• This practice is considered acceptable within their culture, which values ideological goals above the well-being of individuals.
• Children were forced to evacuate schools and engage in stone-throwing, leading to injuries and even death.
• The intifada caused widespread economic damage, with businesses being forced to shut down and those who disobeyed facing the destruction of their properties.

What globalized the Palestinian cause (00:21:07)

• The First Palestinian Intifada gained global attention when children were seen confronting a modern army.
• Corrupt leaders exploited this by putting children on the front lines, delegitimizing Israel, and attracting foreign aid which they pocketed.
• Hamas uses children as human shields to gain sympathy and delegitimize Israel, leading to global chaos.
• Hamas uses children as human shields to gain sympathy and delegitimize Israel, leading to global chaos.
• The international community bends to pressure and agrees to a ceasefire, which keeps Hamas in power.
• Hamas exaggerates the number of child casualties to gain more aid money.
• Hamas booby-trapped schools, hospitals, and mosques, and dug tunnels beneath densely populated areas, which were not widely reported in the West.
• The concept of "Palestine" is a false narrative, as there has never been a country by that name.
• Despite this, many people support Palestine because it fits into the oppressor-oppressed narrative and allows them to feel moral by identifying with the hypothetical victim.
• This narrative attracts left-wing radicals who are drawn to the victim-victimizer narrative and use it to explain the world.

Provoking Israel, “they are not acting alone” (00:26:21)

• Iran's interests align with the chaos in Palestine, as it weakens Israel and the US while strengthening Iran's regional influence.
• The Abraham Accords have held despite the ongoing conflict, indicating a broader alliance against Iran.
• The recent escalation in violence, particularly the massacre on October 7th, is seen as a deliberate Iranian provocation.
• The goal of this provocation is to draw a strong Israeli response, leading to public backlash and potentially fracturing the Abraham Accords.
• Other global powers, including China and Russia, also seek to reshape the world order and challenge US dominance.
• Putin's understanding of Hamas' actions and the timing of the Gaza conflict suggests Russian involvement in the situation.
• Iran's actions are not isolated, and they have launched significant attacks in recent years, demonstrating their disregard for global security.
• Communist and Islamic ideologies have failed to provide solutions for humanity's problems, yet these ideologies persist in their opposition to capitalism.
• Iran's actions in the region are not isolated, and they have launched significant attacks in recent years.
• The recent escalation in violence, particularly the massacre on October 7th, is seen as a deliberate Iranian provocation.
• The goal of this provocation is to draw a strong Israeli response, leading to public backlash and potentially fracturing the Abraham Accords.
• Putin's understanding of Hamas' actions and the timing of the Gaza conflict suggests Russian involvement in the situation.

Biden is not showing leadership (00:31:52)

• Biden's administration is not showing leadership.
• Arab culture does not understand tolerance, it is perceived as weakness.
• Trump's unpredictability instilled fear and prevented challenges, such as moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem.
• Obama and Biden's administrations have enabled Iran.
• The Abraham Accords were a significant achievement.
• The Saudis were interested in joining the Abraham Accords.
• The Biden administration scuttled the opportunity due to unwillingness to give Trump credit.
• This was a missed opportunity and a catastrophe.

A culture that kills the victim (00:33:52)

• Mosab was raped at the age of 5 or 6 in a culture that would kill both the rapist and the victim.
• He never received any support or help after the incident and had to heal on his own.
• He witnessed many women being killed after being raped, as their fathers preferred to kill them to bury the shame.
• This culture reflects the father's inability to protect his daughter and the shame associated with it, leading to the killing of daughters and even grandchildren born from rape.
• Mosab questioned the belief system that considers the rapist and the victim equal and deserving of the same punishment, leading him to doubt the authority of God over human life.
• Mosab decided to face his fear of death and went to a graveyard to investigate and experiment.
• This experience, combined with the trauma he endured, contributed to his transformation of worldview over time.

Still alive, but far from safe (00:38:28)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef survived multiple assassination attempts.
• He is being discredited by progressives and the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States.
• His father disowned him for speaking out against the violence in the region.
• He believes that Islam is not a religion of peace and that it needs to be confronted.
• He is willing to die for the truth and for the future of children.
• The creation of Palestine depends on the destruction of Israel.
• The Islamic State aims to destroy all civilizations to establish a global state called the KFA.
• The nature of the KFA is unknown, and its establishment requires the destruction of civilization.

“I aim to reform a generation” (00:40:40)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, a former Hamas member, shares his experiences and views on the Middle East.
• He describes his personal journey of confronting death and overcoming his fear of it at a young age.
• Yousef discusses his hypothesis that torture exists in the grave and his decision to confront the belief system that gives rise to such problems rather than targeting individuals responsible.
• He emphasizes the importance of individual responsibility in understanding one's identity and criticizes the moderate versus extremist dichotomy.
• Yousef highlights the need for individuals to think for themselves and not blindly follow religious labels imposed on them.
• He sees potential in the Abraham Accords as a pathway forward but maintains his fundamental stance of not compromising his truth or respecting those who identify as Muslims in principle.
• Hypocrisy can be a problem in any religious system, and activists in the West often engage in performative morality without genuinely organizing their lives accordingly.
• The moral decay observed in society is a common human condition, and to achieve a higher state of consciousness, it is necessary to drop political correctness.
• Yousef believes that the right to rebel and criticize is what makes humans superior to animals.
• There is no such thing as a single, monolithic Islam, as there are many denominations within the religion.

Reaching the end of violence (00:48:28)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, a former Hamas member turned informant for Israel, criticizes the Muslim world for weaponizing their religious identity against a religious minority instead of siding with truth and justice.
• He emphasizes the importance of the Abraham Accords holding despite the recent conflict and sees potential for their rejuvenation after the war.
• Yousef believes that violence is a dead end and hopes the Middle East, especially Muslims and Arabs, will eventually reach a point where they no longer tolerate violence.
• He explains that his collaboration with Israel's intelligence service was driven by a moral compass to stop suicide bombers from targeting civilians indiscriminately.
• Yousef criticizes Palestinian society for glorifying suicide bombings and teaching a false narrative about Jewish history and the Holocaust.
• He argues that Hamas and other Islamist groups pose a threat to innocent civilians and should be eradicated.
• Yousef believes that Palestinians should demonstrate equal responsibility before demanding equal rights and criticizes the international community for comparing Hamas to civilized people.

Abuse and the lack of compassion (00:56:53)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef describes the abuse he endured from a young age in Palestinian society.
• He was beaten by Hamas leaders, his parents, teachers, the principal, and other kids.
• He was even beaten unconscious by a mob multiple times.
• Yousef expresses his frustration at the lack of compassion and understanding from society for his childhood trauma.
• He highlights the brutality of the culture and the complicity of the majority in the Gazan society in crimes such as rape and kidnapping.
• Yousef emphasizes the lack of safety for women and the risk of being raped if they leave the house alone.
• He describes Palestinian society as a "death culture" and expresses his love for his people despite their desire to kill him.

Mosab's relationship with his father, arrested (01:01:10)

• Mosab loved his father despite being beaten by him.
• He did not hate anyone, even those who hurt him the most.
• Mosab had the power to order an army to kill someone but refused, especially when they were his opponents.

Imprisoned, witnessing torture (01:04:04)

• Mosab was arrested by Israeli intelligence at the age of 18 before he could carry out his plan to shoot Israelis.
• During interrogation, he was offered a chance to work for them, which he saw as an opportunity to gain information and power to destroy them from within.
• Instead of releasing him, the Israelis sent him to prison for 16 months to avoid suspicion and potential harm to Mosab.
• In prison, Mosab witnessed brutal torture and killings of other prisoners suspected of collaborating with Israel.
• Despite being a suspect himself, Mosab was protected from torture due to his father's status in Hamas, but he lived in constant fear of his turn coming.

Asking the IDF for help, unlearning radical lies (01:05:52)

• After his release from prison, Hamas pursued Mosab Hassan Yousef for information and potential exploitation, leaving him feeling betrayed and contemplating suicide.
• The Israeli intelligence contacted Yousef after his release, revealing that many tortured and killed by Hamas had no connection to them, further disillusioning him.
• Yousef engaged in multiple meetings with the Israeli intelligence, who provided him with education and financial support but no specific missions or tasks.
• The Israeli intelligence agency operates by investing in individuals' education and building trust over time, rather than offering immediate financial incentives.
• The agency employed various tactics, including staged attacks on Yousef's house and arrests, to convince Hamas that he was wanted and build trust with him.
• Despite having access to top secrets of Hamas, the Israeli intelligence agency refrained from acting on the information to maintain Hamas' fear and safety.
• The agency prioritized avoiding civilian casualties during operations and showed concern for the well-being of the Palestinian people.
• Mosab Hassan Yousef was kept isolated from other collaborators and was not connected with anyone else during his involvement with the Israeli intelligence agency.

Studying history and the Bible, how education uplifts (01:14:11)

• Mosab studied world history, Middle East history, and the history of religion.
• He spent 16 hours a day reading and memorized the Oxford dictionary while in prison.
• After his release, he opened up to Christianity and was particularly impacted by the New Testament and the teachings of Christ.
• He found the concept of love thy enemy challenging, especially in a place of conflict where he had enemies.
• The Middle East is a region with a complex history and diverse cultures.
• It has been a crossroads for trade and a battleground for empires for centuries.
• The region is home to some of the world's oldest civilizations, including Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia.
• It is also the birthplace of three major religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• The Middle East has been plagued by conflict and violence for centuries, due to religious, ethnic, and political differences.
• The region has been the site of numerous wars, including the Arab-Israeli conflict, the Iran-Iraq War, and the Syrian Civil War.
• The Middle East is also a major source of oil, which has made it a target for foreign intervention and exploitation.
• The region is facing numerous challenges, including poverty, corruption, human rights abuses, and environmental degradation.

A complex understanding of faith, “He wasn’t my father anymore” (01:16:52)

• Mosab reflects on his journey of understanding faith and love.
• He regrets the influence of Christ consciousness and unconditional love, as it did not bring him to where he needed to be.
• He believes in cause and effect, and that no one is above the universal law of karma.
• Mosab tried to save his father's life, but after the events of October 7th, he had to take a moral stand.
• Mosab considers the events of October 7th as a capital crime and a genocide that cannot be taken lightly.
• He condemns the acts of Hamas, including wiping out communities based on ethnicity and religion, killing babies and children, raping women, kidnapping hostages, and burning trees.
• Mosab believes that these actions require capital punishment.
• He struggles with the fact that his father, whom he loves, is complicit in these crimes.
• After seeing his father support Hamas in a demonstration, Mosab decides that he can no longer consider him as his father.
• Mosab suggests that Israel execute the Hamas mass murderers who were involved in the hostage situation, including those who tortured prisoners and carried out suicide bombings.
• He believes that this would have prevented Hamas from kidnapping hostages in the first place.
• Mosab acknowledges that his father is also complicit in these crimes and should not be an exception to the punishment.

“Israel took me in” (01:22:32)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of a Hamas leader, describes the complex situation in the Middle East and his personal journey.
• He emphasizes his deep relationship with the Jewish people, spanning over 27 years, and the support he has received from Jewish families and communities.
• Yousef highlights his attendance at Shabbat dinners and his connection with Jewish nephews who are fighting in Gaza.
• He expresses his commitment to both the Jewish and Arab people and criticizes those who exploit the situation for personal gain.

Working for Israeli Intelligence (01:24:10)

• Yousef's education was funded by the Israeli intelligence agency, leading him to question their work and broaden his education.
• He began working for the Israeli intelligence organization in 1996, coinciding with the start of the second Palestinian Intifada in 2000.
• Yousef's knowledge of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, gained through his father's prominent position, allowed him access to various meetings and factions.
• His father's status within Hamas was kept secret, known only to the Hamas leadership, and he was potentially one of the movement's founders.

Spiritual leader and father of the movement (01:26:01)

• Mosab's father held a significant position within Hamas, serving as both a leader and the spiritual father of the movement.
• His status was not publicly revealed, and information about his role was only shared among the Hamas leadership.
• After Mosab's story became public, his father's position in Hamas was affected, but the movement still provided him with support.

Preventing suicide bombings (01:27:29)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of a Hamas leader, provided valuable intelligence to Israeli intelligence, enabling the capture of numerous suicide bombers and masterminds, including Abdallah Bari and Ibrahim Hamed.
• Despite his success, Yousef feels discomfort discussing his actions due to the sensitivity of his work and his vow of secrecy.
• Yousef's information was crucial for the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, as it revealed Hamas's plans, including their intention to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.
• Despite warnings from Yousef, the Israeli intelligence underestimated Hamas's potential due to their numerical disadvantage compared to the Palestinian Authority's police force.
• Hamas eventually took control of Gaza, and instead of taking action to prevent their growth, the international community pressured Israel to accept Hamas as a legitimate political party.
• Israel engaged in multiple wars with Hamas, but each time, the international community intervened and called for ceasefires, preventing Israel from completely eradicating Hamas.
• Hamas's use of children as human shields during conflicts made it challenging for Israel to eliminate them without causing significant civilian casualties.

The relationship between Iran and Hamas (01:36:09)

• Iran and Hamas have an awkward relationship due to the historical conflict between Shia and Sunni sects.
• Iran finds Hamas useful for destabilizing the region and provides them with billions of dollars in support.
• The US and other Western countries are helping Israel defend against Iran's ballistic missile attacks, but Mosab believes this is not enough.
• Mosab believes that Iran should not be allowed to possess nuclear power due to their irresponsible and unaccountable nature.
• He criticizes the US for not taking more decisive action to destroy Iran's nuclear program, such as using an electromagnetic bomb to paralyze their systems and set them back technologically.
• Mosab argues that the Biden Administration is compromising US security by trying to please various groups, including Iran, and failing to recognize Israel as a reliable ally.

Why destroy a democracy that protects human rights? (01:40:21)

• Mosab Hassan Yousef describes Israeli society as diverse, democratic, and respectful of human rights.
• Despite ongoing conflicts, Israel has assisted in rescue efforts during crises, such as a building collapse in Ramallah.
• The Israeli intelligence operates with strict protocols, ensuring that arrests and assassinations are based on evidence of terrorist involvement.
• The Israeli military prioritizes avoiding civilian casualties during operations, even in challenging circumstances.
• Israel considers the safety of civilians when conducting operations against terrorists, including those in safe houses with families.
• Accusations of Israel ethnically cleansing Palestinians are false, as Israel is accountable to international law and takes measures to minimize civilian harm.
• The situation in the Middle East is complex and cannot be oversimplified.
• Hamas uses civilians as human shields and booby traps, making it difficult to distinguish between Israeli airstrikes and Hamas attacks.
• Hamas benefits from civilian casualties as it delegitimizes Israel and gains international sympathy.
• The speaker criticizes the rapid shift in the narrative from a Jewish genocide to a Palestinian genocide, accusing Hamas of committing genocide against Palestinians on October 7th.
• Iran is seen as effectively manipulating the narrative in the region.

Mosab's advice to American pro-Palestine activists (01:48:27)

• The pro-Palestine movement on Western university campuses is driven by hatred for successful minorities and a desire to inflict pain on opponents.
• Hamas's actions ignite the bloodlust of many demonstrators and give them pleasure.
• The BDS movement and pro-Palestine propaganda portray Israel as an apartheid state and claim that Zionists are ethnically cleansing the Palestinian people.
• Mosab Hassan Yousef has been canceled from many universities for speaking out against the pro-Palestine narrative but continues to challenge pro-Palestine advocates to open debates.
• The speaker criticizes the hypocrisy of individuals who advocate for extreme anti-Zionist and pro-Palestinian views outside of debates but take a more moderate stance during discussions.
• The speaker emphasizes the urgency of the situation and the need to prioritize the well-being of children over political correctness or personal consequences.
• The speaker argues that the term "Palestinian" is a colonial identity that disrespects the Arab heritage of the people in the region and that they should instead be referred to as Arabs.
• The speaker believes that Arabs in the region need practical support such as education, economic development, and a civil constitution rather than a separate state.
• The speaker stresses the importance of friendship between Arabs and Israelis and rejects the idea of destroying Israel.
• The speaker criticizes the globalized nature of the Palestinian issue and the concept of "Free Palestine," arguing that it disregards the well-being of individuals and promotes a dangerous political concept.
• The speaker highlights the corruption and suffering within the Palestinian leadership, citing examples of financial scandals and internal conflicts.
• Mosab Hassan Yousef expressed his gratitude for the opportunity to speak.