Chase Bank CEO on Economic and Geopolitical Risks: Full Interview | WSJ

U.S. consumer (00:00:00)

• Jamie Dimon worries about the free Western world, including the Ukraine War, terrorism in Israel, and tensions between Russia, Iran, North Korea, China.
• The US consumer is in good financial shape with low unemployment, excess money from Covid stimulus, and rising wages.
• However, the consumer's financial health is largely driven by fiscal spending, which could lead to inflation and higher interest rates in the future.
• The bottom 20% of Americans have not seen significant income growth in the past 20 years and face challenges such as suicide, drug abuse, crime, and inflation.
• Dimon sees geopolitical risks as the biggest threat to the economy and the free Western world.
• He highlights the Ukraine War, terrorist activities in Israel, and tensions between Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China as key concerns.
• Dimon emphasizes the importance of maintaining a strong and united free Western world to address these challenges.

U.S. economy (00:03:21)

• The speaker expresses caution about the U.S. economy due to various factors such as fiscal deficits, quantitative easing (QE), inflation, geopolitical tensions, and the ongoing militarization of the world.
• He believes that the market's pricing of a 70% chance of a soft landing is too optimistic and estimates the actual probability to be closer to 35%.
• He draws a parallel to the economic situation in 1972, which appeared rosy but deteriorated significantly in 1973, cautioning against complacency.

'Bidenomics' and the Fed (00:04:46)

• The speaker acknowledges that Biden's economic policies have led to growth but questions whether they have effectively benefited rural America and inner cities.
• He expresses respect for Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell but believes the Fed was late in raising interest rates.
• He criticizes the Fed's practice of forecasting and suggests they should wait and observe data before making policy decisions.
• He cautions against the assumption that reducing the Fed's balance sheet by several trillion dollars will have no impact, as it is an untested scenario.

Banking crisis (00:06:11)

• The 2008 banking crisis was a real crisis, while last year's banking crisis was much simpler.
• Last year's banking crisis was caused by a handful of banks with concentrated deposits and too much interest rate exposure.
• The acquisition of First Republic was not done solely for financial gain, but also to stabilize the system and prevent a domino effect on other banks.
• The integration of First Republic's platform is going well and is expected to be completed by the end of May, with some potential customer complaints during the consolidation process.
• The US economy is in a good place, with strong consumer spending and a tight labor market.
• The biggest risk to the US economy is a recession in Europe, which could lead to a decrease in demand for US goods and services.
• The Fed is expected to raise interest rates in March, which could slow down economic growth.
• The war in Ukraine is also a risk to the global economy, as it could lead to higher energy prices and disruptions to trade.

Geopolitics (00:07:56)

• Chase Bank CEO Jamie Dimon believes Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas but emphasizes the importance of avoiding civilian casualties and the horrors of war.
• Dimon warns that a Russian victory in Ukraine could have severe global economic consequences, eroding trust in alliances and prompting a realignment of economic relationships.
• He advocates for a new global architecture prioritizing economic alliances and cooperation over military power to mitigate geopolitical risks.
• Dimon urges the US to seize opportunities to promote trade development, finance, and assistance to nations, while reforming ineffective agencies.
• To rectify trade issues, the US should negotiate and rejoin the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).
• The US should engage in trade discussions with existing trade partners to improve agreements.
• Dimon emphasizes the strategic and economic benefits of the TPP, describing it as a "geostrategic home run" that would strengthen alliances.
• He stresses the importance of negotiating with China from a position of strength rather than attempting to exclude it entirely.
• Dimon advocates for establishing a trade system that caters to the free and democratic world, given the perceived threats to its existence.

China (00:12:41)

• China is a complex issue due to extensive trade and integrated supply chains.
• China is aiding Russia's war effort, leading to a proposal for US sanctions on Chinese banks.
• The US should approach China cautiously, considering its strengths and China's vulnerabilities.
• The US should engage in tough conversations with China, involving allies and considering their needs and complaints.
• Sanctions may be necessary if China continues to support Russia in Ukraine.
• The US has abundant food, energy, and no wars in the Americas, providing a strong foundation.
• The US has a high GDP per person and a powerful economy driven by freedom, innovation, and entrepreneurship.
• China's GDP per person is significantly lower, and its reliance on oil imports makes it vulnerable.
• The US should restructure trade around national security, securing access to critical resources and technologies.
• The US should engage with China strategically, considering its oil and gas needs and negotiating around these issues.

U.S. politics (00:15:31)

• The Chase Bank CEO emphasizes the importance of the US presidential election for maintaining global stability and Pax Americana, stressing the need for American leadership and outreach to allies.
• He highlights the significance of a strong military and defending allies to prevent conflicts from reaching US shores, while also encouraging citizens to consider different perspectives and the long-term health of the country when making political decisions.
• Despite a relatively good economy, concerns and anger exist among various groups of people in both rural and urban areas, and their voices should be heard.
• The CEO points out issues such as failing inner-city schools, stagnant incomes, and the need for better support for veterans and education.
• Businesses face challenges due to excessive bureaucracy, regulations, and litigation, which have unintended consequences that hinder job creation, hiring, business growth, and collaboration.

Near-death experience (00:19:44)

• Jamie Dimon had a near-death experience four years ago due to an aortic tear and a previous cancer scare.
• The experiences made him more deliberate in his actions and more focused on what's better for the world.
• Despite the challenges, he still loves his job and family.

Leadership (00:21:06)

• During the 2008 banking crisis, Jamie Dimon learned the importance of being prepared and having a functioning risk committee.
• He emphasized the need for quick decision-making, getting the right people involved, and having the right conversations.
• He also stressed the importance of being present and available during challenging times.

AI (00:22:46)

• Chase Bank has invested heavily in AI research and has a dedicated team responsible for both AI and data.
• The bank is already using AI for various tasks, including risk management, fraud detection, marketing, and idea generation.
• AI is expected to revolutionize various industries, including healthcare, where it has the potential to cure cancer and extend human lifespans.
• Chase Bank is exploring the use of AI for personalized marketing and customer service.

Brick and mortar branches (00:26:17)

• Chase Bank is opening new physical branches in underserved communities, despite the rise of digital banking.
• The new branches offer advice on small business, investments, mortgages, and budgeting.
• The branches also provide financial education classes and serve as community hubs, with community managers who reach out to local businesses and organizations.
• Chase Bank has learned from its work in Detroit and is now expanding its community branch model to cities around the world.

Checks and balances (00:29:27)

• Jamie Dimon, the CEO of Chase Bank, encourages open dialogue and values feedback from various sources, including regulators, auditors, the press, and even his wife.
• Dimon believes that chief executives should publicly address polarizing issues if they have the knowledge and expertise to do so. He supports the LGBT community and free, fair, and safe voting but avoids getting involved in every voting act implemented by different states.
• Dimon emphasizes the importance of uplifting disadvantaged communities and highlights Chase Bank's global efforts in reaching out to businesses, individuals, cities, schools, and hospitals. He uses Detroit as an example of how a city's success can positively impact the nation and benefit businesses operating there.
• Dimon stresses the significance of business leaders engaging in skills initiatives and community outreach programs to contribute to society. He believes businesses can improve public education, the VA system, the FA system, highway safety, and bridge safety, thereby contributing to the betterment of society.
• Chase Bank has collaborated with CUNY to hire thousands of young people and is working with the mayor and the Department of Education to improve high school education.

Retirement and final questions (00:33:20)

• Jamie Dimon, the CEO of Chase Bank, discussed his retirement plans and emphasized that the decision lies with the board. Several capable individuals within the company could succeed him.
• Dimon shared his views on various topics, including the ideal number of days employees should be in the office (five days), the challenges some downtowns in America face due to their own policies, and the best college courses for aspiring employees at J.P. Morgan (accounting, finance markets, etc.).
• Dimon enjoys spending time with his family, hiking, traveling, wine, music (especially rock and classical), and exercising.
• Dimon's morning routine involves waking up at 4:35 AM and reading five newspapers: The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Financial Times, and The Economist, to stay informed about current events and business news both in the US and internationally.
• After reading, Dimon checks internal mail, Axios, Politico, and other sources for about an hour before exercising and going to the office.
• Dimon dislikes being constantly on his phone and prefers to spend time thinking. He has never used social media except for a week-long test each year to observe others' activities.