Decoding Customer Insights, Trust, and the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework with Bob Moesta | E1943

Bob Moesta of the Re-Wired Group joins Jason. (00:00:00)

• Bob Moesta is the founder and CEO of the Re-Wired Group.
• He works with early-stage founders to help them achieve product-market fit and deeply understand their customers.
• Jason apologizes for not having Bob on the show sooner despite his extensive experience in the startup world.
• Bob emphasizes the importance of understanding customer insights and using the Jobs-to-be-Done (JTBD) framework to create successful products.
• The JTBD framework focuses on identifying the specific tasks or "jobs" that customers are trying to accomplish with a product or service.
• By understanding the JTBD, companies can develop products that better meet the needs of their customers and achieve product-market fit.
• JTBD statements: These statements clearly articulate the specific task or job that a customer is trying to accomplish.
• Customer pain points: Identifying the pain points or challenges that customers face when trying to complete their JTBD.
• Customer gains: Understanding the benefits or gains that customers expect to achieve by completing their JTBD.
• Conduct customer research to gather insights into their JTBD, pain points, and gains.
• Use these insights to develop products or services that effectively address the customer's JTBD and provide the desired gains.
• Continuously iterate and improve the product based on customer feedback and usage data.
• Bob highlights the importance of empathy in understanding customer needs and JTBD.
• He also emphasizes the need for companies to focus on creating value for customers rather than simply selling products.

Jumping into Bob's origin stories and the early lessons that shaped his career. (00:02:33)

• Bob Moesta has a background in engineering and has always loved building things.
• He learned early on that "build it and they will come" is not true and that he needed to understand what people wanted before building something.
• Being dyslexic and having three close head injuries, Bob had to learn how to interrogate people effectively.
• He realized that listening is a key superpower and that he needed to listen for what is not being said and the intent behind the words.
• Bob has spent the last 30 years studying what causes people to change and want something new.
• Bob Moesta's framework is based on the idea that people hire products and services to get a job done.
• The "job" is the underlying motivation for why someone is using a product or service.
• Understanding the job to be done allows businesses to create products and services that better meet the needs of their customers.
• Bob emphasizes the importance of trust in building customer relationships and creating successful products.
• Trust is built through consistency, reliability, and transparency.
• Bob also discusses the importance of understanding the customer's perspective and seeing the world through their eyes.
• He encourages businesses to focus on solving customer problems rather than just selling products.

Unpacking the concepts of “the customer is not always right” and that they don’t actually know what they want. (00:04:59)

• Customers are problem aware but not solution aware.
• They can only articulate features or functions of products they've seen in the past.
• It's important to ask customers about their desired outcomes and purposes.
• Understanding the purpose behind customer needs helps identify different ways to meet those needs.

The concept and importance of deep listening. (00:07:21)

• Deep listening involves asking follow-up questions to understand the underlying reasons behind customer needs.
• By understanding the purpose behind customer needs, businesses can develop solutions that truly meet those needs.
• Deep listening helps uncover deeper motivations and desires that customers may not explicitly express.
• It allows businesses to connect with customers on a deeper level and build stronger relationships.

Bob’s use of “the death day” and learning the value of time. (00:08:52)

• Bob's children have left home, and he only sees them once a quarter.
• He learned that people who have had near-death experiences value time more.
• Bob created a "death day" for himself based on his mother's birthday and death day.
• He realized that he has a limited amount of time and wants to spend it on the right things.
• He got rid of the bottom 20% of his clients who didn't value his time.
• He realized that he will see his children only 28 more times in his life.
• Customers hire products and services to get a job done.
• The job-to-be-done framework focuses on understanding the customer's desired outcome rather than the product or service itself.
• Customers don't buy products or services; they buy progress.
• Trust is essential for building customer relationships and loyalty.
• Trust is built through consistency, reliability, and transparency.
• Companies should focus on building trust with their customers by delivering on their promises and being honest and transparent.

Hubspot for Podcast Networks - Marketing Against the Grain: “The Best AI Tools For Marketers In 2024” episode (00:10:57)

• HubSpot YouTube Network has a standout show called Marketing Against the Grain hosted by Kip Bodner and Kieran Flanigan.
• The show provides valuable guest tactics, strategies, and insights to elevate marketing strategies.
• A recent episode by Matt Wolf ranks the best AI tools for marketers in 2024.
• AI tools like Hume allow businesses to detect emotions in customers' voices, enhancing customer satisfaction.
• AI can also be used to quickly create catchy songs and jingles for social media engagement.
• The HubSpot YouTube Network offers the latest marketing trends and insights, available on the network and popular podcast apps.
• Bob Moesta discusses customer insights, trust, and the Jobs-to-be-Done (JTBD) framework.
• The JTBD framework focuses on understanding the specific tasks or "jobs" that customers are trying to accomplish.
• By understanding the JTBD, businesses can develop products and services that better meet customer needs and build trust.
• Moesta emphasizes the importance of listening to customers and understanding their motivations and desires.
• Building trust with customers is crucial for long-term success and customer loyalty.
• Moesta shares personal experiences and reflections on life, highlighting the importance of self-care and pursuing activities that bring joy and fulfillment.

Quantitative vs qualitative and hypothesis-building research. (00:13:08)

• Focus on qualitative research to understand customer language and build hypotheses.
• Deep, heartfelt discussions with a small number of customers (e.g., a dozen) are more valuable than quantitative data.
• Hypothesis-building research involves gathering hypotheses from potential users rather than relying on assumptions.
• Product success depends on both the context in which it is used and the outcomes customers want to achieve.
• Context can add as much value as the product itself or detract from its value.
• Example: Steak may not be a suitable meal option in a situation where people are hungry and need a quick meal, such as after soccer practice.

Bob’s four amazing mentors and how they turned him from an illiterate eighteen-year-old into an innovation machine. (00:16:51)

• Bob Moesta credits his success to four mentors who taught him valuable lessons.
• Dr. Deming, the father of quality and lean manufacturing, taught him the importance of curiosity and deep listening.
• After conducting deep listening sessions, it's important to analyze the patterns of customer behavior to identify different vectors of direction.
• Customers value products differently based on their mindset and situation.
• Modern marketing allows for hyper-targeting and understanding of customer segments through psychographics and other determinants.
• Personalized messaging and imagery can be used to effectively target different customer segments.

Decoding Customer Insights, Trust, and the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework with Bob Moesta (00:00:00)

• Bob Moesta, a renowned expert in customer insights and innovation, shares his insights on understanding customer needs and building trust.
• The Jobs-to-be-Done (JTBD) framework is a powerful tool for uncovering the underlying motivations and desires of customers.
• Customer insights are crucial for businesses to understand their customers' needs, desires, and pain points.
• By deeply understanding customers, businesses can develop products and services that truly meet their needs and solve their problems.
• Trust is the foundation of any successful business-customer relationship.
• Building trust requires transparency, honesty, and consistently delivering on promises.
• Trustworthy businesses are more likely to retain customers and generate repeat business.

Jobs-to-be-Done Framework (00:20:16)

• The JTBD framework focuses on understanding the specific tasks or jobs that customers are trying to accomplish.
• By identifying the JTBD, businesses can develop products and services that are tailored to meet those specific needs.
• The JTBD framework helps businesses to:
  • Uncover hidden customer needs and desires.
  • Develop products and services that solve real problems.
  • Differentiate their offerings from competitors.
  • Create a more customer-centric organization.

The dangers of identifying personas and “the secret sauce”. (00:21:40)

• Personas can be misleading as people's habits can change unpredictably.
• The total addressable market (TAM) is often overestimated as it doesn't consider the actual number of people struggling with the problem a product solves.
• Customer insights are crucial for understanding customer needs and behaviors, including the "who, when, where, and why" of their struggles.
• Airbnb's success lies in identifying and addressing the struggling moment of needing a place to hang out and spend time together during vacations, rather than just a place to sleep.
• Trust is essential in building strong customer relationships.
• The Jobs-to-be-Done (JTBD) framework helps businesses align their offerings with customer needs by understanding the specific tasks or "jobs" that customers are trying to accomplish with a product or service.
• Emotional aspects significantly influence customer decision-making and should be considered when designing products and services.

Drawing importance from the “irrational decision”, as context drives the rationale. (00:26:08)

• Most decisions are irrational, not rational.
• Irrational decisions become rational when the context is understood.
• Interviews reveal forces, pushes, pulls, anxieties, and loves that drive decisions.
• There is no ideal solution, so tradeoffs are made.
• People need choices to make decisions.
• Giving three choices helps people eliminate options and make decisions.
• People compare options to each other, not just on their own merits.

Bob explains his approach to interviews. (00:28:28)

• Bob's interview approach aims to extract customers' stories without influencing their responses.
• He focuses on understanding the context and rationale behind customers' decisions and behaviors.
• Bob believes that customers' decisions are often irrational due to their unique contexts.
• He emphasizes the importance of understanding the variables that make a product valuable to customers in specific situations.

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• Zendesk offers a suite of tools designed for startups to build meaningful customer relationships.
• It provides startups with the ability to deliver exceptional support experiences and track customer interactions.
• Zendesk's metrics and reporting features simplify data analysis and decision-making.
• The "Zendesk for Startups" program provides startups with free access to Zendesk's products, expert insights, and a community of founders for six months.

Applying these concepts to a customer buying a diamond or health care. (00:32:32)

• Customers have specific needs and desires when making important purchases, such as engagement rings or software products.
• The "Jobs-to-be-Done" framework focuses on understanding the specific tasks or goals that customers are trying to accomplish when they engage with a product or service.
• In B2B sales, buyers may be limited to options provided by their company, affecting their ability to choose the product or service they want.
• Health insurance is an example of a product where customers don't have a direct choice, leading to lower levels of understanding and engagement compared to products like car insurance.
• Separating the surprise element from the selection process can improve the customer experience when the buyer and end user are different individuals.
• Creating a system like Airbnb's "superhost" designation can help customers identify reliable and high-quality service providers.
• Stone Algo, a super diamond seller, could enhance customer trust and satisfaction by implementing a guaranteed 60-day return policy or a 30-day return policy with a 60-day exchange policy.
• It's important to understand where people want to buy diamonds but hesitate due to factors like intimidation.
• The diamond buying process can be intimidating for customers, similar to car buying.
• Exploring ways to reduce anxiety and make the diamond buying process more comfortable could lead to increased sales.

“The jeweller effect” and how do you cause trust? (00:37:47)

• Educating customers about a product or service can build trust and make them more likely to return to the person who educated them.
• Trust is not random but is caused by specific actions.
• Elements that can cause trust include:
  • Educating customers
  • Providing multiple options
  • Following through on commitments
  • Being responsive but not too responsive (authentic responsiveness)
• Defining a specific time frame for responsiveness can help build trust.
• Marketing can help make people aware of problems they didn't know they had, while sales can help make them aware of solutions.

Decoding Customer Insights, Trust, and the Jobs-to-be-Done Framework with Bob Moesta | E1943 (00:00:00)

• The "jeweler effect" refers to the tendency of people to return to the person who educated them about a product or service, even if they can find it cheaper elsewhere.
• Trust is not random but is caused by specific actions, such as educating customers, providing multiple options, following through on commitments, and being responsive but not too responsive.
• Marketing can help make people aware of problems they didn't know they had, while sales can help make them aware of solutions.
• The Jobs-to-be-Done framework focuses on understanding the specific tasks that customers are trying to accomplish when they use a product or service.
• By understanding the jobs that customers are trying to do, businesses can develop products and services that better meet their needs.
• The Jobs-to-be-Done framework can also help businesses identify new market opportunities.

Making people "problem aware". (00:40:48)

• To effectively raise awareness about an issue, target your audience with specific messaging at the right time and in the relevant context.
• Snickers is not marketed as a candy bar but rather as a fuel bar that competes with energy drinks like Red Bull, fruits like apples, and quick meals like sandwiches.
• Snickers' success stems from its understanding of the customer's context and needs, such as the desire for a quick energy boost between meals.
• People develop loyalty to car brands because these brands build trust and become associated with a particular lifestyle.
• The automotive industry is transitioning from gas-powered vehicles to electric vehicles, with hybrid vehicles serving as an intermediate step.
• Those who are hesitant to fully adopt electric vehicles (EVs) are not yet ready to make the complete switch but are willing to consider hybrid vehicles as a gradual transition.
• Creating a "half-step" product that caters to the specific needs of a target audience can be more effective than developing the "best" overall product.
• Hybrid vehicles are poised to become the next mass-market segment for EVs, with early adopters of EVs now moving towards fully electric vehicles.
• Despite advancements in charging infrastructure and vehicle range, some drivers still have concerns about running out of power and are accustomed to the convenience of gas stations.

Applying the fact that people learn out of routine to the electric car customer. (00:47:45)

• Desensitization can help overcome anxiety and fear associated with new technologies or experiences, such as electric vehicles (EVs).
• Ads for EVs should focus on the convenience and time-saving aspects of charging at home, eliminating the anxiety associated with gas stations.
• The "full gas tank every morning" concept highlights the convenience and peace of mind that EVs offer.
• The speaker criticizes Ford's current design for the electric Mustang, arguing that it doesn't capture the essence of the classic Mustang and fails to appeal to car enthusiasts.
• Ford's decision to prioritize appeasing stockholders over enthusiasts has led to a split within the company, with separate divisions for finance, internal combustion engines, electric vehicles, and infrastructure.

The concept of nostalgia. (00:54:18)

• Nostalgia involves recalling positive past memories while staying true to the original experience.
• Young people are drawn to unique, older items like classic cars for self-expression and a sense of uniqueness.
• Bob Moesta's mentors, including Dr. Deming, Dr. Taguchi, Dr. Willie Moore, and Dr. Clayton Christensen, greatly influenced his career as an innovator.
• Moesta's book, "Learning to Build," outlines the five essential skills of innovators gained from his mentors.
• Robust design of experiments, taught by Dr. Taguchi, saved Moesta hundreds of millions of dollars by solving complex problems.
• Dr. Willie Hobbs Moore emphasized empathetic perspective and understanding multiple viewpoints, which is crucial for innovators and entrepreneurs.
• Empathetic understanding helps navigate complex dynamics, such as boardroom discussions with diverse stakeholders.
• Societal polarization hinders empathy and understanding among people.
• Many people struggle to articulate their knowledge gaps, leading them to focus on known questions instead of uncovering critical unknowns.
• Bob Moesta stresses the importance of uncovering unknowns to make progress rather than wasting time proving known facts.
• Elon Musk's quick decision-making process involves Socratic debates and the understanding that decisions can be reversed if proven wrong.

Bob’s current book he is writing about what causes someone to leave one company and go to another. (01:03:08)

• People often mistakenly believe that their job should satisfy all their needs.
• The author's upcoming book explores why people leave one company for another, focusing on feeling like starting over with a new manager, being disrespected by a manager, and not trusting a manager.
• Indicators that a person is looking for a new job include not respecting or trusting colleagues, encountering moral or ethical issues, feeling that their work lacks impact, and being worn down by management style.
• Effective remote work requires clear communication and transparency, with founders setting simple concepts like a daily "start of the day" update in a chat room to foster collaboration and accountability.
• Milestones matter for people, both personal and work-related, and people leave their jobs when they feel their milestones are not being met or recognized.
• People seek outcomes such as having more time to spend with others, feeling like their job is a step forward, and being challenged, learning, and growing.
• A two-year agreement with employees can help ensure that their needs and goals are met, and that they are given opportunities for growth and development.
• People change over time, and managers need to be aware of this and make adjustments to their management style and expectations accordingly.
• People's reasons for switching jobs can be categorized into four clusters: the grind, getting fired, micromanagement and lack of growth, and comparison with others.
• There is a trend towards more flexible work arrangements, such as four-day workweeks and remote work.

At what stage is a company that hires the Re-Wired Group? (01:15:57)

• The Rewi Group helps companies scale by understanding customer needs and informing product development, marketing, sales, strategy, and M&A decisions.
• Bob Moesta, the founder of Rewi Group, believes widespread equity ownership in successful companies can foster a sense of participation and well-being in society.
• Founder Fridays is an initiative that provides a platform for founders to connect, share experiences, and learn from each other.
• The next Founder Fridays event will be held on May 3rd, and founders are encouraged to bring their most significant challenge and one thing they wish they had learned earlier.
• The goal of Founder Fridays is to reach 100 cities and over 1000 members.